Extreme Motorsports

[10seclater]

Just a word to the wise. My car was tuned at Extreme Motorsports by Sean Glazar and it blew up. The car was an 06 EVO MR with 5700 miles on it. I did manage to take the car back to Mitsubishi under warranty after putting the stock airbox back in and stock exhaust back on. After I got it back I took it to a different tuning shop and found the Air Fuel Ratio running around 13 to 13.5 /1 at 22PSI. Now we know why it blew up. I'm not here to bad mouth the shop just to forwarn everyone to be carefull.

[NSFW]

I did manage to take the car back to Mitsubishi under warranty after putting the stock airbox back in and stock exhaust back on.

Fraud. Lovely. You must be very proud.

[Subjugator]

hardly fraud, those things legally dont void the warranty

[Freon]

How did you know the AFR was 13.5:1? You have to find that by test, as just because a map says 13.5 doesn't mean it actually runs that, especially with mods to the intake system.

If you went to a second shop and found it was 13.5:1 before it blew, you should've gotten it fixed before it blew up.

It could have been a new leak that wasn't there when you got tuned. A leak between the MAF sensor and turbo could cause this.

While nothing "voids" your entire warranty, no dealer should be expected to cover what happened to this guy's car.

[radsdau]

While nothing "voids" your entire warranty, no dealer should be expected to cover what happened to this guy's car.

Absolutely; I'm with you on this!

[repforenzo]

Hey, can we have more details on what happen at Extreme? I know those boys, and generally have had a good experience with Sean. Just curious...

[C6ect.ect]

After I got it back I took it to a different tuning shop and found the Air Fuel Ratio running around 13 to 13.5 /1 at 22PSI. Now we know why it blew up.

That is quite a bold claim without supporting evidence. Just stating "13 to 13.5 /1 at 22PSI" tells me nothing about the tune except the AFR is a tad lean for max power.

It is most likely that bad gas blew your engine up. I have logs running 13.5 - 1 at 30 psi! This is on a 60,000 mile engine.

Please be respectful to Extreme Motorsports and all the viewers by providing maps and a datalog of the tune showing knock sum, timing, and WB AFR.

[repforenzo]

That is quite a bold claim without supporting evidence. Just stating "13 to 13.5 /1 at 22PSI" tells me nothing about the tune except the AFR is a tad lean for max power.

It is most likely that bad gas blew your engine up. I have logs running 13.5 - 1 at 30 psi! This is on a 60,000 mile engine.

I'd be very concerned about a consistent 13.5:1 AFR at 30 psi.

[C6ect.ect]

I'd be very concerned about a consistent 13.5:1 AFR at 30 psi.

I run from 13.0 to 12.0 AFR depending on gears (thanks to X-tau from acceleration ) and have gone lean as 13.5 several times. No knock occured and I wasn't concerned because I know the car isn't timed beyond optimal, the bell curve CHT vs AFR will peak at about 14.5, and also that 13.5 wont burn any hotter than 12.5 because less power is generated.

The AFR however that would really scare the poo out of me at WOT would be around 14.2 -14.9, leaner or richer is much cooler, unless the engined is timed excessively (common) which may have happened in your case which is why I ask to view the maps and logs to see what possibly could have gone wrong.

A bad tank of gas with AFR pig rich < 10.5 even with mild boost can just as easily burn up an engine

[repforenzo]

I'm going to respectfully disagree with you on some of your points... I don't have an EVO so I'm not sure how efficient its quench-area/combustion-area is for optimal AFR. Conventional wisdom suggests an AFR between 12:1 and 12.5:1 for most boosted cars.

13.5:1 is not awful if you have good timing control, but you're not leaving much room for error (as our friend in this thread may have found out). Detonation can come on hard and fast under different driving conditions. I personally would not have any 13's for AFRs for my tune if I can help it.

[C6ect.ect]

Factory ecu makes it impossible NOT to be leaner than 13.0 in 1st, perhaps 2nd, yet be leaner than 11.8 in fourth - X-Tau, especially as car accelerates faster than stock. If I am incorrect on this, I would love to know how without a complete fuel system upgrade .

Nevertheless, apparently I failed to get my point across. Which wasn't a dispute that an AFR of 13.5 would not blow an engine, or that ExtreemMotorsports was at fault - hell, I never even heard of them and, 10.2 AFR can just as easily do the same. My main point is that more info regarding the tune (by EM) that allegedly blew the engine would be needed to make such a posted claim ethically, such as:

Datalogs with alleged tune
Quality of fuel used during meltdown
Boost
Mods (e.g., fuel pump) and overall condition
Timing/Fuel Maps
Type and quality of oil
Condition of bearings before

Another reason is I would like to know these details for myself, as well as all the other evo drivers around here .

Thanks
[/list][/list]

[repforenzo]

Nevertheless, apparently I failed to get my point across. Which wasn't a dispute that an AFR of 13.5 would not blow an engine, or that ExtreemMotorsports was at fault - hell, I never even heard of them and, 10.2 AFR can just as easily do the same. My main point is that more info regarding the tune (by EM) that allegedly blew the engine would be needed to make such a posted claim ethically, such as:

Datalogs with alleged tune
Quality of fuel used during meltdown
Boost
Mods (e.g., fuel pump) and overall condition
Timing/Fuel Maps
Type and quality of oil
Condition of bearings before

Gotcha. Timing is really where it is at.

[Extreme Motorsports]

I would also like to see some light shed on this thread by asking the same questions. It would be interesting to see the file that was supposedly tuned by me. I keep every file saved--- I can compare it to what I exactly programmed IF I had ever programmed this car at all or if changes were made after it left. From my end, I have not heard of anyone having their EVO blow up that I have programmed with Open ECU or with any other flash program. I also have logs to coordinate with each dyno run to reflect upon.

I agree that if what is being read in the tables is an A/F of 13.5:1, then you do not understand what it means. If it is being stated that the actual read with a real wideband is 13.5:1, then that is a completely different story. One item of concern, is that we utilize our Dynojet wideband to read the A/F and is also recorded with every dyno run. The target is simple 11.7:1 to 12.0:1 on OUR dyno which is safe and stable as well as looking at knock and overall timing. To have a car leave with that A/F would only mean one thing--- something was wrong with the car and you were going to take care of yourself then come back at a later date to have it finished, and never did and ran it *as is*. Also, I have run a side by side A/F comparison with my Autronic Model B to check the accuracy against each other--- and for all intents and purposes they read the same.

Lets clear this up by seeing the hex file to start (even if you don't have the one I supposedly programmed or don't want to post it or any others for whatever reason, at least post your immobilizer code). If you want to e-mail it to me privately, send it to seang1@extrememotorsports.com and I will look at it from there. For privacy, your identity will not be revealed as that is our policy. Our concern for any car that has problems is to determine what went wrong, but without ever knowing--- there is nothing we can do.

Extreme Motorsports has been in the community for over 14-years and tuning is what we do and I know we know how to do it. Also for everyone's information, any vehicle that is flashed at our facility (regardless of manufacturer) is done by me. This is a forum of information, so lets see what information we have.....

Also, one interesting note: our '05 MR with just a click over 5000 miles on it had the OEM fuel pump fail after a year of running and driving the car. Another one of our customers car's also had its OEM pump fail at 70,000mi--- both would run and drive 100%, but under boost it could not deliver the pressure. Back to back dyno runs with a switch to a Walbro cured this. The problem is that when they failed, the cars wanted no part of going into boost as they would kick, buck, and complain--- this was good as it kept the cars from getting into boost and having further problems.

[C6ect.ect]

22PSI. Now we know why it blew up..

Thats why. Boosting 22 psi with the stock fuel pump timed for for excessive fuel (11's). The tune did not blow up the car, the OEM fuel pump just couldn't manage. The first mod on a evo if planning to run more boost is a fuel pump, unless you have the time to tune it lean with reasonable timing - which can take weeks.