06 WRX w/VF39, Catted Stealth back, ebay tmic

[Tecla]

I've got various parts on the way, gonna start with just stage 2 first before I put the VF39 on. But I wondered if I could have a map for the turbo ready. Wouldn't this run very similar to a stage 2 sti? Could I just copy fuel and timing maps and drop boost a few psi? Maybe pull them back a bit(3-5%) to compensate for the greater CR?

The isn't much written on a stepwise method to tuning. But I was told to go with the following order.

1. Boost
2. Fueling
3. Timing

Comments?

[swifty]

I did fuelling first. Shouldn't matter what base maps you start with, you should end up with pretty much the same result. You'll learn more by using your current map as a base.

[m3n0ch3]

an old friend always said... timing is the key...

without propper timing you will not get nice boost/torque

adjust timing, give it propper fueling, adjust boost... and loop this back to fine tune

don`t forget, running rich as hell is not good.. bigger torque runs around 0.83 0.9 lambda afr or between 12.5 and 13.5 approx

Phil

[ev8siv3]

I've got a base map for that setup, I'm working on a couple of revisions for it right now. Should be available soon.

[Freon]

You need to have a general idea what kind of boost your engine, turbo, and intercooler can run.

Program that boost with what should be conservative timing and fueling. Then pull fuel out until it is what you generally think is possible. Then up the timing last. Then you can go back and push boost, fuel, and timing.

I wouldn't call it a three step process. That's just the beginning. On the first pass I still wouldn't run crazy boost levels.

[Tecla]

ev8siv3: Sweet! I'll look forward to it. The parts won't be on the car for a few weeks yet. I've been meaning to try out your Stage 1 map for the 06. I've been running nuked's stage 1, but yours looks alot smoother.

Back to topic.

The advice on steps to work with was from Sean at Rallitek. He said the stock boost system is the hardest to get dialed.

The stock fueling maps should be a good place to start as they are pretty rich? Although with the new turbo I'll need to re-scale them. Even with the stock TD04 I've seen 2.56 engine load, the stock tables only go to 2.5. All that I've read says to start with a target of 10.5 AFR at the top end.

So get a conservative fueling table in. On to timing. What constitutes a conservative timing table? Should I just give it a shot with the stock map and see what my KC does? I'm in OR with 92 octane btw. The map I'm running right now(nuked's from this forum) usually has KC fluctuating between 6 and 2, most of the time it's right at 4. Basically any negative KC is bad, and a ton of positive indicates that your base timing is not aggressive enough?

Boost.. I'm not sure what exactly I want to run, probably 15ish to start, maybe as high as 18 if I get brave. So I put these conservative tables in for fuel and timing and then Set my target boost levels. Use some low initial WGDC settings and then log, seeing what duty cycles the ECU is running to get my targetted boost and up my initial to somewhere around those? This should get boost set about right, well enough that I can go back to fueling and timing right?

So then go back to fuel and timing and start inching them up, watching what KC is doing. What is the general consensus on top end AFR? 11-11.5? For top end timing is there a way to do it well on the road? The ECU stops detecting knock after a certain RPM right?

Anyway how is that for a meandering beginner tuning how to?

Also anyone messed with AVCS? Perhaps that is a topic for a different post..

[swifty]

The ecu does stop detecting knock after a certain rpm but you can still usually hear it with det cans.

[imprezarsx]

funny.

I just tuned the exact same setup today.

vf39
ebay tmic
full exhaust

put down 268hp on a dynojet (eddy current, not the big roller) with 306ftlbs of torque.

I had a problem with the ecu defs or something.... when I changed the avcs, it didnt respond properly. according to ecuexplorer, i still had over 7 degrees of advance when I had 0 on the map.

apparently there are other maps for avcs locked in that ecu somewhere.
Also had a problem with the wastegate. For some reason the duty cycle would drop to 0 around 5400-5700rpm. even though it wasn't close to target boost or anything. again, there is another map somewhere that isn't in the definition.

Basically, enginuity was pretty worthless for anything other than timing, fuel and CELs. (on this tune. Enginuity has been very very helpfull on most other occasions.)

I tried a def from xml write and it was mostly 0's everywhere. I had to use ecuflash because the definition from xml write for enginuity had errors and wouldn't even load.

I didn't charge him for the tune. I got him 1hp. Even sold him a boost control solenoid sure that it would stabilize the crazy ass boost levels.... nuthin'. boost was spiking 4psi and NOTHING I did had any effect before or after the perrin solenoid was installed.

[Tecla]

Well after much waiting the exhaust finally showed up. I'll be installing it Saturday. There is a dyno day that morning I was hoping to get it on in time for, but that is looking doubtful. Plus I don't have a Stage 2 base map for a 2006 to work with.

So speaking of that, what is usually involved in stage 2? I gather it's mostly just dialing in boost? What else usually needs to change?

[ride5000]

an old friend always said... timing is the key...

without propper timing you will not get nice boost/torque

adjust timing, give it propper fueling, adjust boost... and loop this back to fine tune

don`t forget, running rich as hell is not good.. bigger torque runs around 0.83 0.9 lambda afr or between 12.5 and 13.5 approx

Phil

i totally disagree with adjusting timing first.

i suggest you set up a very conservative timing map. ie, flat and low.

get your boost TARGETS ironed out.

move on to fuel targets. make sure you test them across various loads. you're new to tuning. make them rich. 11:1 is a good spot to be at with 93 octane. if you only have 91 move it down to high 10s.

adjust timing LAST. it is the most virtual of the three parameters.

go back and make readjustments. your boost TARGETS should not have changed. the response may have changed slightly.

also, do yourself a favor and DO NOT follow this guy's advice in terms of tuning to ~13:1. that's ridiculously lean.

[m3n0ch3]

Prove me I'm wrong with 12.9-13.1 AFR for max torque

when you have to rich out it's because you're timing is not right and you use boost to compensate for timing not being right.

Running rich will chemically cool down your cylinders... and reduce torque.... nothing else.. ohh yeah.. it is safe... when you have to compensate for timing and not enough time to tune right on.

I'm not going to get into a fight over this.. I get my numbers and my customers are happy and the EGTs are not going sky high.

first thing one might do is setup the safeties and tight them down.. once done, tuning it to the max torque afr bit by bit will get you the power you want

[ev8siv3]

I'd prefer to run 15+ degrees of timing and keep the cylinders cool.

No reason to run 3-5 degrees of timing just to aim for 13:1 A/F.. That's old school.

[m3n0ch3]

and you think runnign 2 extra pound of boost is NOT increasing the temperature?

I'm using timing and AFR to get lower EGT and get same torque as higher boost which gives me higher EGTs....

[ev8siv3]

I think the results are what matter. I can run 1600F with 20psi or 1600F with 15psi, it all depends on how the car responds to the tuning.

Personally, if I'm using 91 octane I'm not going to come anywhere near 12.5:1 during peak torque. You can get away with that on high octane 104 but it's definately not a safe method.

12.5 may be the actual scientific proven optimal AFR for torque, but throw in turbo's, gas, and various driving styles and that quickly changes.

Why don't you see the other 95% of tuners dialing in these cars at 12.5? Because it's not realistic to run that way. Most end-users want optimal driveability with on-demand throttle response and smooth power delivery.

[ride5000]

;)

Prove me I'm wrong with 12.9-13.1 AFR for max torque

that's easy. just look at what the fastest cars run on pump gas.

you're not going to tell me that ALL the other tuners out there don't know your little secret, right?

I'm not going to get into a fight over this.. I get my numbers and my customers are happy and the EGTs are not going sky high.

i'll be the first one to admit there's more than 1 way to skin a cat.

so let's ante up and toss out some numbers. have you got any datalogs of a pull? i've got 10,000 lines of logs going back 3 years.