Ok I give up, where is the source code?

OpenECU software executables and source code

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Ok I give up, where is the source code?

Postby pisymbol » Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:10 pm

ECUFlash is released under the GPLv2 source license. The Wiki pages for download show links to compiled binaries. The license page shows the dual-licensing arrangement (very common approach). But I see no link to a source repository or source rollup.

Where do I download this?

Thanks!
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Re: Ok I give up, where is the source code?

Postby todd-w » Sun Apr 05, 2009 2:34 am

why would you need it anyway ????
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Re: Ok I give up, where is the source code?

Postby radsdau » Sun Apr 05, 2009 3:59 pm

There was source released for a very early non-GUI version, years ago. I don't know where you can get that. It won't help with all the recent vehicles and bugfixes etc of course.
As todd-w said, why would you need the source anyhow, if the software is free to use anyway?
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Re: Ok I give up, where is the source code?

Postby pisymbol » Mon Apr 06, 2009 12:34 pm

I'd like to contribute. I also have some feature requests which I hope to contribute and experiment with for personal use. The project is licensed under the GPLv2, can someone please tell me why my question is getting so much slack? Oh, and again, where is the source?

Am I mistaken with respect to the licensing terms of this project?
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Re: Ok I give up, where is the source code?

Postby pisymbol » Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:48 am

Anyone?
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Re: Ok I give up, where is the source code?

Postby radsdau » Wed Apr 08, 2009 3:20 pm

There are lots of people who would like to contribute, but I don't know of anyone who has been given the source.
My guess is that the licensing arrangement has unofficially changed from what it was originally, i.e., I don't think it's open source now.. Getting the source under the original licensing scheme is unlikely.
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Re: Ok I give up, where is the source code?

Postby pisymbol » Fri Apr 10, 2009 6:04 pm

Alright, that's franky illegal but hey...what do I know...
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Re: Ok I give up, where is the source code?

Postby Merp » Tue May 19, 2009 1:56 pm

You'll probably have to call tactrix and talk to colby to get anywhere.

I agree, it is illegal.
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Re: Ok I give up, where is the source code?

Postby logic » Sat Jun 13, 2009 9:02 pm

It's not illegal, at least not in the US.

It might be civilly actionable by certain software authors, depending on what other code Colby depends on for EcuFlash, but he appears to have been very careful in that regard. Qt would have probably been the only one that was a possible issue, and since they switched to the LGPL recently, it's a moot point. (Back in the day, he would have needed a commercial license to distribute source-free.) One other thing that jumps out at me is the graphing; it looks like gnuplot output, which has some, er, "very odd" redistribution restrictions. I'm guessing it's just using one of the several Qt interfaces to gnuplot, but without source it's tough to say. ;) Regardless, as long as some portion of the mix isn't GPL-licensed (like gnuplot-cpp), there's nothing much to complain about here.

Anyway, if you were to obtain a copy of the source code for EcuFlash by some means, you could reasonably take this licensing page to mean that you have the redistribution rights that the GPL provides. As a version is not specified, you'd have to make an educated guess as to which version applies here; the last updated date on that page is 2006, so it would be reasonable to assume that GPL v2 was implied.

I've been told that Colby will make the source available to select folks upon request (in fact, the RomRaider development community had access to it back in at least 2007), but this kind of limited distribution is hardly what everyone was expecting; we were basically lied to several years ago (the whole thread is worth reading). I appreciate what availability of EcuFlash has made possible, but we're still building on the back of a software package we can't inspect, modify, or improve. Which, aside from the price (which is free only if you don't consider the cost of the cables and adapters), isn't a much better situation than the commercial products available on the market.

As a pointer in the right direction if you really want to work on this stuff (as opposed to simply wanting access to the source as a matter of principal, which I can certainly appreciate), an early version of Colby's HC16 kernel (0.91) is bundled with the EcuExplorer source; it doesn't get you SH reflashing (so no newer STi ECUs, no Evos), and it's a binary blob (so you'll want to pull out IDA), but it's a place to start. Colby has known that's been there for a very long time, and I've seen no assertion on his part that it's covered by anything but the GPL above, but you'll want to consider licensing carefully before spending too much time with it. ("Inevitable disclosure" can be annoying.)

(On an unrelated note, I noticed Hamish added flashing capabilities to EvoScan recently; I wonder if he independently developed that, or if the flashing kernel was borrowed from EcuFlash? I haven't looked to see if HC16 flashing was included as well, but I think he's focused on the Evo stuff anyway, hence SuperH. Regardless, it's still a closed-source product, but interesting just the same.)
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Re: Ok I give up, where is the source code?

Postby pisymbol » Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:50 am

It is illegal in the US. At least the original version under GPL must be open sourced. Does anyone really care or willing to sue over it? Probably not.

You were talking about dependencies which I really don't care about but if you release something as open source, its open source regardless of the components it uses and their licenses (they just complicate things). In fact, I'm not even sure you can convert GPL->closed source easily based on the license itself but IANAL.

Thanks for the link on the thread. And yes I feel its a lie too. In fact the whole "open" and "ECU" here is a misnomer. I also agree logic about OpenECU vs 3rd-party vendors - other than RR which is really a Viewer/Editor of Roms, noboy is truly open source.

I will give it up to Colby and EcuFlash as a project. The barrier to entry is quite high to get things done. The latest ECU is a SH7058 (2008 STI) and the tools from Renesas to debug/flash it aren't cheap. The very best thing I can think of is the use of a simple JTAG debugger (a third party one ain't cheap either) that could be put on during a reflash cycle in order to get a feel for how things work (that and the flash/debug specifications on the Renesas website). I can see why Trey@Cobb was a little suspicious since he put in a heavy investment in a bunch of these tools plus the time to reverse engineer the actual code (its tough and very labor intensive). The best post is this one:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showpos ... stcount=73

Which sounds about right if you were doing it with the ECU board in your car not a devkit which would be preferred and way more efficient. Either way even those steps take a lot of effort and my hats off to Colby. I have no idea how much time it would take if you did this part-time but I assure you it doesn't sound like a 3 week project (and god forbid you are driving the target platform!).

Thanks for the EcuExplorer tip. I actually found this 2 months ago but have no desire whatsoever to reverse engineer the kernel file in it. In fact I discovered it by accident. Someone on the RR forum's said, hey there is EcuExplorer is you want try somethign different. I popped open the source, saw that it was using a mailbox/doorbell protocol to talk to some loader on the ECU (add to the fact that this is the recommended approach in the manuals and I read somewhere on one of the forums that this is what Trey describes what Cobb does) and then followed it back to a KERNEL.HEX file. Ran strings on it and saw EcuFlash 0.91 kernel or something on it.

Uggh.
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