Mongoose USB cable interface

[Kosti]

Hi Guys,
Not sure if anyone has seen this, so I'd thought I'd post it up to see what you guys think?

The cable called the Mongoose, is a low-cost full-speed USB (12mbps) interface.

More details on the link below? Can this work for our subbies?

http://tunertools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=83

Cheers
Kosti

[Kosti]

Hi guys,

I assume this is no different to the openport 1.2 right.

Sorry just trying to understand the products.

I'll be looking at the tari one anyways!

PEACE
Kosti

ADMIN, feel free to delete this thread.

My BAD!

[cboles]

That cable does not operate with a simple serial protocol, and so it won't work with any of the logging or reflash software here. To relflash some cars, you also need programming voltages that these cables do not supply.

Colby

[TunerTools]

That cable does not operate with a simple serial protocol, and so it won't work with any of the logging or reflash software here. To relflash some cars, you also need programming voltages that these cables do not supply.

Colby

Aren't we being a bit quick to dis the only sub $200 J2534 compliant deviceon the market?

[dubya_rx]

Aren't we being a bit quick to dis the only sub $200 J2534 compliant device on the market?

Not when it costs another $80 for the software.

[TunerTools]

Aren't we being a bit quick to dis the only sub $200 J2534 compliant device on the market?

Not when it costs another $80 for the software.

The nice thing about J2534 and the dll that ships with the Mongoose is you can write your own. Drew has the beginning already started for you in LabView and Joe has some sample code to kick start things if you can talk him out of it.

Of all places, I thought "OpenECU" might be just the group that would find this interesting.

LabVIEW PassThru (J2534-1) Interface
Virtual dashboard example, display several OBD-II PIDs

[JonnyM]

Furthermore, the software is just an OBDII code scanner..

J2534 needs support from car manufacturers before it can take
off as the universal API.
The OBDII protocol is usually correctly implemented by them ,
so it's an easy task to get an OBDII scanner to work over J2534.
The situation is quite the contrary when it comes to the car manufacturers
proprietary protocols.
Using an API which relies on an intelligent cable taking care of protocol
timings gives you no possibility to adjust your own program for
timing quirks and protocol bugs.
and I have yet to see a car manufacturer without such problems in their proprietary protocol.
J2534 do also have a lot of limitations, among those are the max bitrate of 15625 bps. Useless for reprogramming ECU's..

[TunerTools]

Furthermore, the software is just an OBDII code scanner....

That depends which software you're referring to. The DLL that ships with the Mongoose can hardly be described as an OBDII code scanner, so you must be referring to PCMSCANand yes, that's what it's designed for. What I was referring to is the now standardized way you can write your own code(or subscribe to the OEM programs) to program anything you want on the ECU of any compliant system and some serious hardware that's running on open source operating systems. (not talking about the Mongoose this time)

J2534 needs support from car manufacturers before it can take off as the universal API.

Well, according to the J2534 Reprogramming Information Availability table at etools.com (last Updated 10/29/2005) The question asked "Is J2534 application software available from this OEM and can J2534 reprogramming be performed using a non-OEM J2534 device? (Yes or No)" and the answers add up to:

14 OEMs = YES
2 OEMs = NO (and one of those said Q1 06)
? OEMs = 4

Keeping in mind that was last updated in October of 05 and add the fact that support for the standard AND availability of the software is mandated by law before the 2008 model year and (personally) I'd call that pretty much supported by car manufacturers. Interesting that the one remaining "No" on that table is Subaru. But no matter, they'll be on board by 08 at the latest.

Look, not trying to start a flame war here, but this Mongooseis an interesting tool for the money and the J2534 standard is far more accepted than your post lets on. If this board is only for discussion of Subarus and OpenPort, that's fine... I just thought this tool and this standard merited slightly more consideration than we'd seen here.

At TunerTools, we sell a ton of the generic and Elm327 based OBD toolsas well as many other related products. In fact, the Mongooseis one of the least profitable lines we carry and I just keep it around because I find it interesting and I believe there's a serious future in J2534.

No intentions of upsetting any apple carts and sorry if I did.

Cheers,
Lloyd

[joeyoravec]

J2534 needs support from car manufacturers before it can take off as the universal API. ... The situation is quite the contrary when it comes to the car manufacturers proprietary protocols.

How so? All OEMs in North America are required by EPA mandate to provide J2534-based reflash software. Plus most of the domestics use J2534 software inside their calibration groups: GM has DPS and V2, Ford has PTDiag, etc. Although Europe/Japan are different, it's widely adopted in North America.

I've only heard a few legitimate complaints about J2534 with respect to proprietary protocols. One was needing "mixed mode CAN" which was fixed with a J2534-2 extension. Another is a proprietary Volkswagen protocol which was not incorported before J2534-2 publication. Finally some ancillary protocols (MOST, Flexray, LIN) have not been incorporated. Do you have any concrete examples to back up your statement?? I can bring any new topics to the committee.

Using an API which relies on an intelligent cable taking care of protocol timings gives you no possibility to adjust your own program for timing quirks and protocol bugs.

An excellent point -- which is why the J2534-3 (tool validation) committee exists. It's important to have an objective test!!! If you ever identify a problem in a DrewTech product, please call me in the office and I'll make sure it gets fixed immediately.

An intelligent cable is useful and necessary for many protocols. With ISO15765, how could you honor a separation time of zero if each CAN frame needs to be processed by the host? Or how could you reflash a Volvo, at least in a reasonable amount of time, which speaks on multiple protocols simultaneously, if each frame travelled up to the host? Let the host run the application logic, and the vehicle interface worry about the P-timers and network details.

J2534 do also have a lot of limitations, among those are the max bitrate of 15625 bps. Useless for reprogramming ECU's..

That statement is totally incorrect. Page 9 of J2534-1 (Dec 2004) section 6.5.1 statement "f" requires 19200 at +/- 2% tolerance for both ISO9141 and ISO14230 (KWP2000) for full compliance. Statement "g" specifies any other baudrate should use the same tolerance. VW/Audi has flashed controllers with CarDAQ at 500 kBaud (at least). The speeds you mention aren't maximum; they're a "minimum standard for compliance".

[crispyduck]

Kosti and TunerTools, quick background question from me - do you guys have any connection with DrewTech?
-Steve.

[TunerTools]

Kosti and TunerTools, quick background question from me - do you guys have any connection with DrewTech?
-Steve.

I own a retail store and the Mongoose is one (of many) products we sell, so there's that connection.

Can't speak for Kosti as I don't know him (her?)

[Jon [in CT]]

The nice thing about J2534 and the dll that ships with the Mongoose is you can write your own. Drew has the beginning already started for you in LabView and Joe has some sample code to kick start things if you can talk him out of it.

Of all places, I thought "OpenECU" might be just the group that would find this interesting.

The not-so-nice thing about the Mongoose is that is can't support J2534 passthru reprogramming for Japanese cars because, as Colby pointed out, it can't supply the voltages specified by J2534.

So that leaves the Mongoose with only scanning abilities.

[joeyoravec]

The not-so-nice thing about the Mongoose is that is can't support J2534 passthru reprogramming for Japanese cars because, as Colby pointed out, it can't supply the voltages specified by J2534.

So that leaves the Mongoose with only scanning abilities.

As you know, many of the newer vehicles no longer use a programming voltage. Toyota's CAN vehicles work fine with Mongoose. But you have a good point about the reprogramming voltage for older ECUs; it's something we're working on.

[Kosti]

Kosti and TunerTools, quick background question from me - do you guys have any connection with DrewTech?
-Steve.

No I have no affiliation with this product - or know DrewTech. I was just seeking optional cables that are out there or being developed.

I own a Subaru 2003 Liberty B4 (Twin Turbo Legacy as it's know everywhere else) and there is no way I'm paying a tuner $1600 AUD when I paid for my car and all of it's components.

I'm a noob to the ecu stuff and getting information or hardware in OZ is a nightmare.

PEACE
Kosti

[TunerTools]

I'm a noob to the ecu stuff and getting information or hardware in OZ is a nightmare.

Welcome to a world of technology still new enough for opinions to vary widely, at least it's never dull!

My son was down in Australia for the F1 race at the end of March/beginning of April. Sounds like a really awesome place and he had a great time. If you need anything, let us know as we have no problem shipping to Australia and we'll do what we can to get the best shipping rates, usually USPS. All pricing on our website is shown first in USD, but conversion to AUD and EUR pricing is shown with every item. If the item you're looking for is not on the website, ask... lots of stuff we just don't have the time to list.

Cheers,
Lloyd