Open Source project safety

[LGT-3-6]

Where are the open source projects? I see some free tools, and snippets of code, but not an open source project. I think our goal should be a code tree of full SSM functionality, and then much more.

I was thinking of starting one myself having a good portion of my own code already, however the legal threat from the high-margin competitors (bogus or not) is really making me think twice. It seems like I would be sticking my neck out where nobody else has.

Also, shouldn't Subaru be providing a dump of the SSM protocol due to recently passed laws? "At a reasonable price" This alone should stave of any possible legal troubles.

[cboles]

I have yet to post my code, not for legal reasons, but only because I have a very large amount of it and want to organize it a bit before making it public. It mostly relates to reflashing, although the lower level stuff could be used for logging too.

If you can see any legal substance to said "competitor" laying claim to using SSM for logging, I would love to hear about it.

Subaru providing SSM info for a fee (however small) could hinder the project as we could not republish this info without infringing on their copyright. Very similar to posting their service manuals which are available for a fee online, I think.

Colby

Where are the open source projects? I see some free tools, and snippets of code, but not an open source project. I think our goal should be a code tree of full SSM functionality, and then much more.

I was thinking of starting one myself having a good portion of my own code already, however the legal threat from the high-margin competitors (bogus or not) is really making me think twice. It seems like I would be sticking my neck out where nobody else has.

Also, shouldn't Subaru be providing a dump of the SSM protocol due to recently passed laws? "At a reasonable price" This alone should stave of any possible legal troubles.

[LGT-3-6]

Subaru providing SSM info for a fee (however small) could hinder the project as we could not republish this info without infringing on their copyright. Very similar to posting their service manuals which are available for a fee online, I think.

I think that's bogus. Making your information available for a fee is not equivalent to an NDA. Because someone publishes a book, does not mean I cannot post a review and summary of it. Because subaru publishes service manuals, does not mean I cannot describe to how to do an identical procedure.

[mpg]

An NDA is besides the point.

Publishing copyrighted information that someone else is selling is a bad idea.

If someone owns a copyright they can enforce it against someone who distributes the copyrighted material. If you publish copyrighted material without paying the owner a fee you can be found liable for damages. If the copyright owner is selling the copyrighted information, their case for damages is pretty evident...

I think proceeding with an abundance of caution is the best way to avoid trouble with these forums.

[Jon [in CT]]

I think that's bogus. Making your information available for a fee is not equivalent to an NDA. Because someone publishes a book, does not mean I cannot post a review and summary of it. Because subaru publishes service manuals, does not mean I cannot describe to how to do an identical procedure.

Subaru is required to furnish information to tool manufacturers detailing the protocols, pins, processing algorithms, etc. that document the "enhanced information" that its scan tool (Subaru Select Monitor) accesses. However, the EPA requires the above information for generic and enhanced diagnostic information be provided only to those aftermarket tool and equipment companies with whom appropriate licensing, contractual, and confidentiality agreements have been arranged and allows Subaru to charge a "fair and resonable fee" for any OEM licensing or business arrangements with equipment and tool companies.

Tactrix could likely qualify as an aftermarket tool or equipment maker and gain access to SSM information directly from Subaru. However, any such info supplied by Subaru would probably be accompanied with a NDA, or contract agreement, or license, etc. that would make it impossible to legally include the information in an Open Source project such as this one.

[altaic]

Tactrix could, however, make said SSM binary library available for free, and we could safely reverse engineer it

Edit: I just realized this thread is two years old

[Jon [in CT]]

Tactrix could, however, make said SSM binary library available for free, and we could safely reverse engineer it

Edit: I just realized this thread is two years old

Yes, this is old, but now is a good time to update the information.

So, are you volunteering to reverse-engineer a binary which implements SSM as described by Subaru? If so, I can point you to two such binaries for Windows.

Two PC-based scan tools, http://www.Autoenginuity.com and http://www.OBD-2.com, support SSM (see http://www.autoenginuity.com/Subaru-All-Systems-List.html and http://www.obd-2.com/subarpid.htm). You can tell their support is based on info from Subaru because they both mention weird parameters like Competition Mode Switch and Competition Mode Light. You can download their executables for free, but they work only in demo mode until you supply the correct activation key.

How did those companies get that information from Subaru? They are members of the Equipment and Tool Institute (ETI). According to http://techinfo.subaru.com/html/specialToolInfo.jsp

Subaru is committed to make available to information providers and tool companies training information, tools, and tool information. Although different manufacturers use different mediums for distributing tool information, Subaru's current practice is to distribute our information using Equipment & Tool Institute (ETI) and Blue Streak Electronics (BSE). Tool information is distributed subject to reasonable confidentiality, licensing, and/or security arrangements.

All the information from car manufactures supplied to ETI is made part of ETI's Tek-Net Library. This used to be distributed to ETI members on CDROMs but it's currently being indexed and placed online (see https://securehost.totalsol.com/Tek-Net_Data_Search/Default.aspx). It's not cheap to gain access to this information. A full ETI membership is required ($5,000 for the smallest companies) and scan tool manufacturers are required to be a member of the Scan Tool Vertical Group ($2,500).

[altaic]

Interesting, I hadn't realized there were any such 3rd party tools that implemented SSM. I'll probably have at those binaries in the next few weeks, although I suspect they don't support the new CAN cars, which I am primarily interested in ATM.

[Jon [in CT]]

I'll probably have at those binaries in the next few weeks, although I suspect they don't support the new CAN cars, which I am primarily interested in ATM.

They do, but that's irrelevant because 2008 Subarus continue to support SSM via the K line.

[altaic]

I realize that, but I'm interested in utilizing CAN bus because it's faster and cleaner than SSM over the K line.

For instance, there is the quirk that is the limitation of the number of parameters one may log, generating garbage if said limitation is exceeded. Now, I don't know if that is an ECM limitation or the bus, so CAN might not make a difference there. Then there's SSM message framing, which works fine for simple circumstances, but it difficult to write properly (frame shifting for recovery from framing errors, for instance). By virtue of CAN's link layer, software framing problems are a thing of the past.

Anyhow, I intend to support both CAN and communications over the K line, but I want to investigate CAN fully.

[Mart]

Competition Mode Lamp

where is that damm address in SSM? anyone knows?

Mart

Tactrix could, however, make said SSM binary library available for free, and we could safely reverse engineer it

Edit: I just realized this thread is two years old

Yes, this is old, but now is a good time to update the information.

So, are you volunteering to reverse-engineer a binary which implements SSM as described by Subaru? If so, I can point you to two such binaries for Windows.

Two PC-based scan tools, http://www.Autoenginuity.com and http://www.OBD-2.com, support SSM (see http://www.autoenginuity.com/Subaru-All-Systems-List.html and http://www.obd-2.com/subarpid.htm). You can tell their support is based on info from Subaru because they both mention weird parameters like Competition Mode Switch and Competition Mode Light. You can download their executables for free, but they work only in demo mode until you supply the correct activation key.

How did those companies get that information from Subaru? They are members of the Equipment and Tool Institute (ETI). According to http://techinfo.subaru.com/html/specialToolInfo.jsp

Subaru is committed to make available to information providers and tool companies training information, tools, and tool information. Although different manufacturers use different mediums for distributing tool information, Subaru's current practice is to distribute our information using Equipment & Tool Institute (ETI) and Blue Streak Electronics (BSE). Tool information is distributed subject to reasonable confidentiality, licensing, and/or security arrangements.

All the information from car manufactures supplied to ETI is made part of ETI's Tek-Net Library. This used to be distributed to ETI members on CDROMs but it's currently being indexed and placed online (see https://securehost.totalsol.com/Tek-Net_Data_Search/Default.aspx). It's not cheap to gain access to this information. A full ETI membership is required ($5,000 for the smallest companies) and scan tool manufacturers are required to be a member of the Scan Tool Vertical Group ($2,500).