Information from EcuTeK

[swifty]

Silverback

The ecutek website says that you can purchase and use delta dash as an individual but the software that is used for remapping is only available to experienced tuners, not enthusiasts or individuals.

[SilverBack]

Silverback

The ecutek website says that you can purchase and use delta dash as an individual but the software that is used for remapping is only available to experienced tuners, not enthusiasts or individuals.

Previous statement a bit too obscure perhaps…

What I was trying to allude to, it's all about supply and demand.

I want to be able to tune my own car.

If EcuTek sold to the public, I would be very interested in purchasing a single user copy with a license to tune my car only. That not being available, I'm looking for alternatives and ended up here as I have a Mitsi IX. I personally have no intention or interest in infringing EcuTek software or any other legal IP they may hold. I just want to tune my own car!

If ECUTek do not want to sell to individuals that is their right. They are, after all, only trying to protect their business and investments - fair enough.

What I do not think they can do is obstruct with a potential competitor.

What I'm saying is if they do not free up for individuals, somebody, somewhere will produce a product that does and I'm sure they will not need to infringe ECUTek IP in anyway to do so.

As I said, it’s all about supply and demand!

[swifty]

I read the post again and got the context right this time

[VectorBundle]

How can you even copyright a set of Fuel and Timing figures for a factory ECU ???

if you are not the factory, then obviously you can't. i don't understand why this sort of subject keeps getting debated on boards. people have been hacking different ecus for years and making software which is just user friendly version of hex editor with convenient display and tables (and checksum routine). the factory binary is not their intellectual property. otherwise the 1st guy to find a map in an ecu would run to the copyright office and get exclusive rights to it closing it off to anyone else ever hacking it? idiotic. and it's interesting that even automakers never sue any of the software vendors bc they want a cut of the action for making (a lot of) money on reverse engineering their calibrations. why is that (besides potential bad publicity)?

some vendors are just greedy and want to keep monopoly, so they use only tactic available - empty intimidation. this is complete bs and there is no legal angle there at all. what's more, i'll go a step further: i see nothing illegal about poking inside a vendor's software (if one owns legit license to his copy) and using it to figure out the locations of the maps or anything else. some vendors try to prevent this by using encrypted formats instead of open binaries, etc, etc, but just question if someone figures it out, too bad. even if it could be proven that maps were found using their sw, location of the maps is not their ip, and afaik any fair use copyright laws permit one to dig into their own personal licensed copy of any software they purchased as they want and use for any purpose not otherwise illegal whether it is intended purpose of sw or not (maybe to bake a cake).

as i see it if ecutek or whoever had a good few years of exclusive product, they should count their substantial gains and be happy and move on to develop new and better products or improve theirs to make it more attractive than alternative. i for one am more impressed with developers that stay ahead by getting ahead, not scrambling to keep others behind. can't prevent proliferation of knowledge and technology, just delay. if they wanted to delay more effectively, they would have been better off making software more accessible, so people would have been less likely to want to develop independent solutions. as i see it, now the ship has sailed, just matter of time...

anyway, that's my 2 cents. sorry this came out so long.

-alex

[chrisw]

EcuTeK LLP wishes it to be known that it owns copyright in EcuTeK software and its supporting documents and that it will act to protect these rights.

If you are concerned that you might have infringed our copyright or other intellectual property rights, or that you might do so in the future, we would be happy to discuss ways that a reasonable and amicable solution might be found.

David Power

*****************************
EcuTeK
7 Union Buildings
Wallingford Road
Uxbridge
UB8 2FR
ENGLAND

Tel: (+44) 01895 811200
Fax: (+44) 01895 811611
sales@ecutek.com
www.ecutek.com
*****************************
Please visit our EcuTeK Technical Forum
forum.ecutek.com

As an induvidual can I purchase ECUTek software for use on my own car?

yes you can. It's bloody expensive, but you can buy it.

I think what EcuTek is concerned about is cracking the encrypted their ROMs. If it is encrypted, that is their right to do so. I suspect that they have bought licenses to the car ECU code, and to maintain their licensing requirements to (Mitsubishi or Subaru) they have encrypted their Flash.

As long as we don't try to decrypt a EcuTek flashed ECU, there should be no copyright infringment.

Speaking from an EVO perspective, it would be nice to be able to read the imobilizer code off the EcuTek'ed ROM to allow myself (or the dealer in an emergency) to read the rom so I can get new keys made without requiring EcuTek's software.

If EcuTek is reading this, do you think you could provide this utility without comprimising your copyright?

[VectorBundle]

I think what EcuTek is concerned about is cracking the encrypted their ROMs. If it is encrypted, that is their right to do so. I suspect that they have bought licenses to the car ECU code, and to maintain their licensing requirements to (Mitsubishi or Subaru) they have encrypted their Flash.

i think that's not why they would encrypt the flash. i think automaker doesn't care what format the files are edited in when they know their ecus are being molested and their warranty terms being circumvented using it. bet subaru didn't agree to that.

i think vendors use special flash format just to ensure that files dumped with their sw/hw can then only be read, edited and flashed using ONLY their sw/hw for obvious reasons = $$$. i understand wanting to protect the format. but how other than the encryption itself? i think one needs no permission to convert files whose content is not protected ip (it's just 3rd party data to automaker ecu).

eg, LT1edit used special *.lt1 format for obd1 lt1 flash files. someone wrote little program that converts between *.lt1 and raw *.bin. been around for years, everyone knows, can easily dl it for free. LT1Edit would have surely killed it if there was legal basis to do so. i don't really care as i am not decrypting anyone's formats, but if i were i wouldn't be too worried...

-alex

[Kosti]

In Sydney Australia a company here charges $1600 for an ECUTek remap for a few minutes of plugging into the ecu unit, no wonder they are scared!

Sure lots of R&D when into finding the point before meltdown, but that's a lot of paychecks..and frankly I say open it up and share it

PEACE
Kosti

[SilverBack]

<snip>
"As an induvidual can I purchase E****k software for use on my own car?"

"yes you can. It's bloody expensive, but you can buy it."
<snip>

I'm afraid, you can't.

E****k have a number of criteria you must fore fill before they will supply the software. I doubt very much any individual enthusiast could meet the criteria.

Bring on the competition, I say!

[west_minist]

Sliver,

Be still happy that a site that started out mostly Subaru is including evo's even the 9, when we have a lot of 99/00 Subaru models that still need support.

[05GarnetLGT]

im just glad the DBW support happened.
for awhile it looked like 02-05 WRXs were all anybody cared about.

[Nuked]

Agreed on both points^^^^^^^

For my own reasons

SQ

[TiburonRaven]

whom do I need to speak to, to copyright the tiburon reflashing?

[Judge]

What I find funny is they drop in....pop off at the mouth and never re-post to answer the questions possible customers have posed to them....

[thejean]

As long as we don't try to decrypt a EcuTek flashed ECU, there should be no copyright infringment.

Even then I don't see the legal infringement. You already purchased a license for that map. If you want to modify it for you own use, then you should be allowed. Again, you already purchased the rights to ue that map.